Sat 24 Jan 2004
In a debate about immigration, a prominent opposition TD has said that Ireland should introduce compulsory national identity cards, and everyone should have to carry them.
Ruairi Quinn, the former leader of the Labour Party said so on Saturday View on RTE radio earlier today. He said that compulsory ID cards were fundamental to having an open and democratic society.
(Saturday View is normally available in streaming format for the week after the show, but this week’s show hasn’t been put up yet.)
January 24th, 2004 at 9:34 pm
The trend toward introducing national identity cards is unrelenting and would indicate that it’s only a matter of time before they’re brought in.
Regardless of the pro or anti debate, it might be time to think about exactly what information such cards would contain.
Fergus
January 24th, 2004 at 11:30 pm
I think what information they should contain is easily answered by looking at their format in those other European countries–NB, this is most of them–that have national ID cards.
And, well, compulsory ID cards as fundamental to having an open and democratic society?. Bollocks. To take two uncontroversial counterexamples, look at Canada and Australia. Open and democratic societies? Yes. ID cards? No.
January 25th, 2004 at 2:05 am
What was the context for that quote? It makes 0 sense to anyone reasonable, I think.
I can think of very few “open and democratic” societies where it’s true — and quite a few “closed and dictatorial” ones where it is.
January 25th, 2004 at 9:38 am
The context was immigration. The question was how it could be right to demand that immigrants carry identification and produce it on demand, when citizens are not required to do so.
The stream is up on the RTE site now. What he actually said is below (he said ‘open’ but he didn’t say ‘democratic’, and he said ‘part and parcel’, not ‘fundamental’.)The segment in question is about 42 minutes into the RA recording. It was mentioned by Rodney Rice that MMcD was unwilling to bring in ID cards because of the risk that they might be abused. What Ruairi Quinn said was “I personally believe that we should have an identity card system - most of uscarry identity anyway. It would avoid an awful lot of abuse in our system in terms of social welfare sdams … it’s part and parcel of an open society. Now, within the European Union, of 25 member states, I think it’s logical and proper for all citizens, for all individuals to carry identification papers.
January 25th, 2004 at 11:04 am
I lived in Belgium for about 20 years and was required to carry an ID card at all times. I did not at any time feel that my rights were being violated or that I was being oppressed. In fact I found the card very useful. There was none of this having to provide a ‘photo ID and a recent utility bill’ that is common here if you want to open a bank account or join a video club. The one thing I couldn’t do with the card was use it for cross border travel because strictly speaking it was a residence permit rather than a National ID Card.
The only time in 20 years I was asked to produce the card by a police officer was when I was investigating a car parked outside my apartment. The car’s alarm had been going off all night and I went down to see what was going on. However, a passing cop thought I was interfering with the vehicle but once I produced my card that showed I lived locally there was no problem. I often wonder what would have happened if I hadn’t had the card on me at the time.
I suppose what I’m saying is I don’t have any objection to a cumpolsory ID card provided there’s something in it for me. Advantages would include:
* proof of ID when opening bank accounts. Apparently a lot of immigrants and visiting students have problems in this area because they are in rented accommodation and cannot provide utility bills. And I know of at least one Irish person who doesn’t drive and has never travelled abroad and is unable to open a bank account.
* If you’re Irish, facility to travel within the EU without having to acquire a passport
Of course, my experiences with ID cards in Belgium may be affected by the fact that I am white. Your mileage may vary.
February 3rd, 2004 at 6:53 pm
ID Cards are ok i think. But the gardai….i just cant trust them. ID cards are just the start, then a few years down the line it will be an implanted RFID chip so we can walk in anywhere and buy this and open that.
If that belgian cop
(Posted by: David Stewart) scanned you from his car he would not have had to get out and ask for your ID card.
But, sitting at his little in car terminal he could have checked what you like to buy in shops. what magazines & underwear you buy, what websites you read and lookat, who was your last girlfriend etc.
People will always abuse a system like that, just look at how many tune in to those reality TV shows. Now take that cross section and put it in a police force. Nuff said.
February 7th, 2004 at 11:59 pm
Have a look at my own take on immigration policy at
www.tallrite.com/blog.htm#EuropeanImmigrationandRepopulation
May 26th, 2004 at 10:21 am
How does a person obtain a National Identity Card.
February 16th, 2005 at 5:04 pm
National identity cards..Why?I think thats the major question in this issue.Personally I agree with the overall concept,making them compulsary will combat the major issue of illegal immigration and terrorist activities.If these ID cards are infused with biometrics it will make it impossible to have multiple identitys or a fake national ID card.All individuals who oppose it will bring up the cost issue but the bottom line is if National Identity cards are not enforced in society,passports will have to be upgraded with higher security measures,which in turn will cost.Anyway the idea is people will have to pay for their cards,i think its estimated 100euro every 10 years but dont people have to pay for their passports?With the way the west is moving it is inevitable National ID cards will eventually have to be implimated in Ireland.
February 16th, 2005 at 5:11 pm
Oh yeah just tell all those misled by what information will be put on the cards..It will only be the basic necessitys eg.name,age,date of birth and of course biometrics.All which can only be accessed by officals in charge.
October 10th, 2005 at 10:27 pm
I’ve just read this site. I’ve been living in Germany for nearly 15 years now, and am really annoyed that we don’t have this National ID card. I am constantly asked for proof of identification, not only here in Germany, but also when travelling abroad. Whether it be entering a company, withdrawing money at a bank counter, spot-checks on public transport, checking into hotels (where in some countries they keep your passport as deposit, so you have absolutely no ID as an Irish citizen!!)are just a few of the situations I have come across over the past years. I’m sick to death of carrying my passport around with me as my only proof of ID, and not only do I have the fear of losing it or it being stolen (then I am stranded abroad) but also the fact that because it is the only official ID I have (and that of all other Irish citizens) and that I must carry it everywhere with me, some officials are beginning to wonder whether it is a real passport because it is so shabby looking with being in my pocket all the time, and secondly because it’s hand written!! So come on Ireland, get up with the rest of Europe and most of the world. I am an Irish citizen too, even if I don’t live in Ireland. So I can’t understand the problem. It would definately easen my life.
March 20th, 2006 at 10:03 am
I am depressed by how easily we could be dragged along after the UK into their potentially highly intrusive scheme.
July 17th, 2007 at 12:19 pm
I think that ID cards would be a great step because we are asked for identification here and abroad and its easy if you have a license to drive but what about those who don’t?
September 20th, 2007 at 12:57 pm
I’m Dutch and livin in Ireland for the last 10 yrs. In holland it’s by law you have to carry a ID card ,or sumtin equal .I think it’s only better for yourself ,at least less hassle if you have to produce any ID ,anywhere
November 3rd, 2007 at 1:23 pm
A national ID card is no more than a means by which the state can exercise greater control over the citizen (think of a dog on a short leash) and which makes the citizen answerable to the state in a way which is entirely inconsistent with democratic principles. Remember: branding cattle is only for the benefit of the farmer, not the cattle.
August 27th, 2008 at 6:03 pm
I think I.D cards are a terrible idea, for Ireland or any country! sure, they say its for our ‘protection’, and to fight crimes such as fraud, but the line between protecting your people, and controlling them, is very thin and can very easily become invisible. there wouldnt be a need for such a thing if certain people were doing their jobs. instead of looking for criminals, police monitor cars and civilians in their every day lives. im originally from belfast and there the amount of camera are extremly intimidating, and being taunted for an ID cards would make that ever worse. most of ireland doesnt even need protection, for those who live in small communities, we look out for each other. what happened to those days? there are other alternatives to branding the people. those who give the orders, wont be the ones who suffer.
September 8th, 2008 at 10:53 am
It seems like there are two extremes on this issue -
1. A national ID Card is used by the government to keep track of citizens
2. A national ID Card is used by the citizen to prove identity -if and when required.
it seems like the best solution would be an ID Card that doesnt collect any data - but this would mean verifying card would be difficult - unless holographic imprints were included maybe ?